Posted by Dr. Anil R. Shah
What do beauty, breakups, and self-growth have in common? In a thought-provoking podcast episode, Dr. Anil Shah, a double board-certified facial plastic surgeon based in Chicago, joins certified relationship coach Julian Auza for an open conversation about confidence—inside and out.
Dr. Shah shares how physical transformation through surgery can help patients reconnect with their inner beauty and self-worth. Meanwhile, Julian dives into the emotional side of transformation, explaining why cultivating self-love is essential before inviting love from others. Whether you're navigating heartbreak or just looking to become the best version of yourself, this episode explores how inner and outer change often go hand in hand.
Transcript:
Dr. Anil Shah:
I am super excited about our next guest Julian Auza. He is a relationship coach and he's been a relationship coach for a while in Chicago. And his background is interesting because he studied psychology at University of Illinois and he's been a certified relationship coach for a few years. And I think this is relevant because of what we do with aesthetics and beauty and relationships and life. It kind of intermingles and we're gonna be talking about a lot of these different things. So welcome Julian. How are you?
Julian Auza:
I'm good. How are you doing?
Dr. Anil Shah:
Good, good. Thanks so much for joining and all that and definitely appreciate having you on here. So you know, before we get started, just say some background, how did you get into relationship coaching? Were there any factors in your life that made you say, I need to be a relationship coach?
Julian Auza:
Yeah, so I was always really interested in psychology growing up. And then I actually am planning to get my masters so I can be a licensed counselor just because I feel like this work has opened up so many opportunities for me. And I just feel like having that background would be really effective in my work. And I would say, I think just the current dating market and how tough everything is and how there's so many dating apps. I think there's so much noise in dating that I've had awful relationships one after the next. And then I think my last one was so bad. It was awful that when I started doing this work for myself, I realized that I wanted to teach people this work too. So I wanted to be a provider for this work.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Okay, cool. And, and you’re a relationship coach, but we spoke a little bit. You also talk about dealing with breakup specifically. Is that like an aspect or a niche that you're dealing with in your relationships?
Julian Auza:
Yeah, it's a niche that I'm in just because I feel like breakups are the most transformative and I think a lot of people can fall into negative patterns. And I think when anyone is going through a breakup, that's when their patterns are the most visible and that I feel like it's such a good vehicle to start working towards relationship health.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Okay. So you were sort of talking specifically about relationships and talking about failed relationships. Yeah. Someone meets with you. Like are they saying, hey, guess what? Is it about grief, like overcoming the relationship or is it about like, Hey, I've been in like five failed relationships, what am I doing wrong? Like, what's, is it me or is it the world? Which, which one of those, or is it
Julian Auza:
Both? So the people that mainly come to me come to me for a specific need. So they're usually saying, Hey, I can't stop thinking about my ex or I keep stalking my ex on social media, or this is the fifth time I've broken up with this guy, but I still feel the pull till I get back together with him. I need help. So that's where I show them their patterns of scarcity patterns that they're feeling like they can't meet anyone else, and like insecurities that keep pushing them back to those awful relationships. So I think that's really where I'm able to help transform their mindset and transform their lives so I can finally say no to that person or be more confident in finding someone else.
Dr. Anil Shah:
And it's kind of true that you need that person in your life. Everyone needs that. Oftentimes people make the same mistakes over and over again and you don't realize you're making the same mistake. And I'm sure that person who comes to you is like, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Do you know the pattern right away when you talk to someone or does this take some investigative work for you to kind of figure out what's going on?
Julian Auza:
It takes a little bit of investigative work, but the pattern is essentially the same. What the ex investigation comes from is their mindset and what they're feeling. Just because someone going back to their ex kind of time and time again could feel insecure or they could feel like they're running out of time. So they're like, oh, I'm in my late thirties, I have so much history with this guy, this is what I need to do. So that's where the investigative work comes in. And I think the pattern is similar and the action still needs to stop. So how can we start changing that pattern, changing that perspective so they can feel confident in moving forward and not feel so scared, like feeling like they're never gonna get married just because they're in their late twenties and they're going through a huge breakup.
Dr. Anil Shah:
So I mean this is the difficult question. I mean, that's such a hard thing to do because there's some people who've been in four year relationships, in five year relationships, and they've invested so much time. You know, some people say, Hey, I gave up my youth to be with this person. And how do you determine, are there like signs of toxicity where there's something you're like, Hey, this is something that is sort of the introspection from the person that helps them realize that they need to move on or, or be with this person?
Julian Auza:
It's kind of identifying why they feel like it's a waste of time. So there's this idea in psychology, it's called the sunk cost fallacy. So if you're trying to salvage a relationship that's already bad and kind of ran its course, you're just chasing more good time after the bad time you've had. So they're not really willing to change. So obviously there's no right or wrong answer to this, but it has to be a identification of the pattern. So if they've been investing so much time, like a relationship that's four years, has there been any real change in those four years or has it been the same arguments, the same issues, the same infidelity that is keeping you not moving forward in that relationship? And that's where you have to identify that. Is this a choice that they wanna make consciously or is this their scarcity patterns that's keeping them stuck focusing on one person? Or is it insecurity saying, Hey, like, I will never find anyone I like this much. Or is there like a belief that like, I am still gonna marry this person even though they're so awful for me?
Dr. Anil Shah:
Wow. I think what I do is so much easier than what you do because it’s so complicated and putting that all together and I mean, you really put someone, I, I see patients in a vulnerable state and at some, you know, some level. Now I think physical vulnerability is slightly different than emotional vulnerability. And you know, it's, it's a core belief. Like when you're talking to someone saying, Hey, am I good enough? Am I, am I not part of it? And I always feel like, you know, for me, again, being a surgeon, I'm not dealing as much on the depth of obviously that what you're dealing with your clients. And so but there is some of that level where, you know, that drive for self-improvement and improving that and seeing that confidence. And it's that scarcity. Am I gonna be good enough? And oftentimes I always feel like we are who our own worst critic is.
Julian Auza:
It's us. Yeah. I wanna say something about that because I had this client who was like, oh, I don't wanna keep doing this anymore because I don't wanna date 'because I don't wanna look stupid or I don't want people to think that I'm dumb. And I was like, who's actually calling you dumb? And she was like, no one. So it's like, yeah, it's all in your head. And I think that's the same thing with appearance as well, that I feel like there was something I wanted to touch on, something that you talked about earlier that you're mainly doing with physical, but I think there is kind of like an emotional and mental aspect that goes into it. Especially with body dysmorphia. Some people can come to you and never be satisfied with anything because their insecurities don't stem from their physical appearance. It stems in their minds and their stories they tell about themselves and how they're treated as kids.
Dr. Anil Shah:
And this, this whole self-love is learning to love yourself. There's a lot of depth here because, you know I, I'm not sure if this is true, but you, you tell me because we're we're getting the depths of things that are, that are beyond me, but they say it's hard to be in a relationship if you don't love yourself. You can't love someone else. Do you believe that's true?
Julian Auza:
Yeah, I believe so. Just because I think if you don't fully love yourself, you'll tend to kind of cross your own boundaries to focus all the love externally and give it to someone else. So I think that's why people, when they go through breakups, they're so devastated because they lose themselves in their relationships. And I would say you can still love someone, but it's not true love. It could be attachment. And I think that's where the distinction has to come in. Someone can be attached to a person because if they don't love themselves, they're not really looking after what they want in life and what they need. So a lot of my clients are women going after men that don't want to commit, and they've already attached themselves so much that they think it's love.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Oh my gosh, this is complicated. And this is the heaviness of the moment. And you know, men sometimes it is like two different clocks that are working here. I assume that some of your women want to have kids and they want to have things move on and they've set this pattern that they want to have for their life. And then some of the men are sort of like, you know what, I don't have any time restrictions. I can do this when I'm, you know, 60 or 70 and you know, there's, there's this whole claim. So it's a little dose of the reality that relationships are so complicated.
Julian Auza:
Yeah. I feel like yes, there's complications in it, but you can also simplify it. So with women, especially my clients, I am all about feminine energy and all internal healing, but the external reality is also very important. So I like to ask them if they've given them their ex maybe like a fifth chance or sixth chance. Do you want to give them a seventh, eight and ninth? Is that where you really want your relationship to go? Or do you want to meet the love of your life in a year and then get married in two years? So that's where you have to understand that there's so much possibility that you attract what you truly are. So if you love yourself even more, you'll start saying no to the guys that will treat you negatively or not commit to you because you know your own self worth and then you'll attract that person that will commit to you so much faster.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Oh, okay. So I'm gonna say something that's maybe slightly controversial.
Julian Auza:
Oh yeah, sure.
Dr. Anil Shah:
I think people pay too much attention to the outside, but I think a lot of times I change the outside of patients so they can realize how beautiful they are on the inside. Like if someone doesn't like their nose, they often seek a partner where they like their, like their nose, or if someone doesn't like their neck, they seek someone who has that attribute. And so it's oftentimes it's like, it's like this really complicated measure. And when they get past the physical components of it, there's so many great people out there who are looking for genuine depth of relationships beyond the physical.
Julian Auza:
Oh, that's great. I think that makes sense. So I feel like that also could explain this. I think if someone doesn't like something about themselves, they're hyper fixated on it. So when they find someone where they do like that thing, they kind of notice it. They're like, oh, that looks really good. That's like my thing. Like, I'm attracted to that because I'm insecure about the thing that I have
Dr. Anil Shah:
The true love and the true connection. It's you know, you think about this spiritual, this part of this, which is beyond all the physical elements because I always say, if you, it's so much more and this me talking to you, it's true. This is my saying to patients, it's so much harder to change the inside than it is the outside. If you don't like a facial feature, like if you don't like your ears or your hair or any of that, you can change it. And it's just one of those things that you can, but if you wanna change the inside of who you are and that part of it, it takes work, it takes self-love, it takes introspection, it takes a lot of these processes that many of us aren't gonna be self-aware about what's wrong with us.
Julian Auza:
Yeah. So the first kind of wave of coaching with me is we detach from their exes. So we try to identify those stories and then the transformation happens after that because they're so attached to those stories, they think like, oh, I'm only gonna be happy with this one person, or I need to be validated by this one person to be happy. And then even the internal transformation can take possibly over a year, depending on how deep those core wounds are that they have.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Do you have kind of like a favorite story of someone who came to you and sort of like, this person came to you, Julian, and they were like you know, and then after they talk to you like, like a success story? I mean, sometimes it's nice to hear they're kind of like that, that pattern.
Julian Auza:
Yeah. I had a client who came to me because she didn't know, she was not over her ex, which was really interesting, but she knew she had a block to dating. There was something stopping her from dating guys and she was just like, I don't know what it is. I'm just so independent, blah, blah, blah, and all these things. And all she could see was that like, I'm independent, I don't need anyone else. But then as we started working together we talked about how she felt about dating and she said, oh yeah, there's no point in it. And then we dug deeper and it's like, why is there no point? And then after we dug even deeper into that, she said that because she's gonna get hurt anyway. So we realized that she had this wound that was coming from a relationship that was two years before we started working together.
And I was like, have you ever mourned this relationship? And then she said, no, because he cheated on me and he's a jerk and I don't need to do that. And then I was like, okay, yeah. But there's still a part of you that needs to release that because a part of you still has expectations. They were together for two years, so that's still a really long time. And then they even lived together. So there were still expectations. There's a part of me that has to mourn this, so we actually didn't exercise when we felt the pain in her body. And then when we started talking to the pain, she started crying. And that was something that I thought was really amazing because she had never felt it before and she didn't allow herself to. And then also she grew up with parents that didn't know how to feel their feelings. So she had inherited that mindset as well where it's like, oh, I'm too good to be sad about this. Yeah. And I felt like that was really good. That was one of my amazing stories that I felt like pushed me forward into doing this even more.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Love it. I love it. Do you notice a difference between married couples who come to see you who are post-divorce and when you see them, is it more complicated than like dating relationships?
Julian Auza:
I've never worked with couples. I've only worked with women that were divorced.
Dr. Anil Shah:
So yeah, that, that's what I meant. So women who are divorced versus people who are dating, is there a difference you think in the mindset with someone who's been divorced versus someone who's been dating and they break up?
Julian Auza:
I would say there isn't because I just feel like a divorce is a breakup, but with paperwork. And it's kind of the same thing. And I've also had clients come in where they get divorced and then they meet someone new like a year later and they break up after three months and then they even notice that that breakup hurt way more than the divorce.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Wow.
Julian Auza:
Yeah. And then what we uncovered during that time is that they never properly process the divorce and it's coming up again. Because if you're not fully healing your rejection wound, they will come up in a stronger way if they are brought up a second time.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Are all breakups failures? Because I think the problem was when people break up, they feel like, Hey, guess what? The expectation is if I meet someone and it's successful, like we're gonna live to 80 together and we're gonna have something like what society or a movie or a television show. A great relationship that lasts basically forever. And real life doesn't work that way. So I mean, is there a different mindset about love, relationships and breaking up? Is there something that we as a society need to do differently?
Julian Auza:
Yeah, I would say that relationships have to be a practice and it's kind of understanding curiosity about the other person. And I like that you did bring that up, that it is about movies because I think relationships are so romanticized that it's either a heartbreak that was terrible or something that's like a happily ever after. But a lot of times it is kind of just like this steady line where you're just getting to know each other over and over again. And as far as failed relationships, I give this idea to my clients that you don't really have to get married for a relationship to be successful. You just have to understand what you want in a relationship and how you're gonna show up to your next relationship. Obviously it's still gonna be hard and there's gonna be heartbreak and it's still gonna be bad, but if your idea that a relationship is only successful if you end up together, then that's gonna set you up for failure.
And I also like to tell my clients this, that you're not dating to get married. So I feel like a lot of things, what I've heard is like, oh, I'm dating to get married and that makes me like a serious dater. But if you're dating to get married even by the first or first few dates, then you're gonna want to hold on tighter to that person because you're like, oh, I'm dating to get married, I'm serious about this. But you also have to identify that if something's not a match for you, you're allowed to walk away.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Knowing what you know. Is there any advice you'd give to couples who are together and say, Hey, these are the warning signs that you are, you're seeing, I know you're on the other side of the, like you see the relationship, you see when it doesn't go right. But are there any things that you’d say, Hey, guess what? If you're seeing these things, you really need to start working on it because you need to be working on it at all times. But yeah. What are some warning signs?
Julian Auza:
I would say contentment for each other. If you're not actively trying to fall in love with them over and over again because I think that's what the trick is because if you're starting to see them in a negative light and you're not challenging yourself to not do that, then I think that's when the relationship actually falls apart. Because if one person starts doing it, you can still salvage it. But if you're both doing it, then you know, the relationship's over.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Yeah. That's the mindset I always say is that we're on the same team. I say that with my wife a lot. And it's the bumps you know, it's, it's easy to get into. But I’m not making this a therapy session for me. But sometimes when you're together you think that it's all about, it's not about who's right or wrong. Sometimes it's like, Hey, same side, let's hear each other's viewpoints. Yeah. And you know, kind of move forward. But it's hard in the heated moment because no one, even myself, I don't agree with myself from five years ago. Like, how am I gonna agree with someone like now? Right.
Julian Auza:
Yeah. I would say it's not about being right or wrong, it's about holding space for each other because you could literally be married to someone for 10 years and not know them a hundred percent. And I think that's where curiosity comes into it, where it's like, you have to be curious about why they would say something a certain way or why they would think a certain way. Because even though you could be married and living together for 10 years, there's still things about them that you're still uncovering. Another thing too is like if you're in an argument and you're trying to win the argument, that's how you know you're having problems.
Dr. Anil Shah:
We know confidence is important and that's one of those things that you know, I always try to impart in my patients and clients and all of the therapy elements, all of the deeper depths and all that. I can't do any of that. That's not what I'm trained to do. I'm here to change something on the outside. But yeah. I think the competence element though, it seems to help on multiple levels where I'll see little changes in clothing. They'll wear something brighter there. They're more put together. They're working out more. And to me, I think that's kind of that level. But I usually don't want it to stop at just the exterior part. I want them to treat themselves, you know, mentally and physically, and make sure they get all of that.
With that I see this a lot. I see why it's getting cosmetic procedures and the husband's not as excited about them getting that. Yeah. That, I think, is always interesting. But it seems like sometimes when they do that, it's like they have this brand new version of themself that they can kind of love again. It's like another physical form, which is kind of cool. Yeah. So if someone wants to contact you, Julian and talk about their post breakup, they're not feeling great. They're post-divorce and they say, Hey, I just need someone because I'm making these, I know I'm gonna be making these mistakes over and over again. What's the best way for them to contact you?
Julian Auza:
Yeah. They can find me on Instagram @julian.thecoach. And then also I have my website, julianthecoach.com.
Dr. Anil Shah:
I love it. Actually, I feel like just for me talking to you, there's so much we could talk about, we could talk about this for hours, about all of it. And I'm sure it has to be so gratifying what you do to help so many clients from all over.
Julian Auza:
It is, it's so great. I feel like one of my biggest insecurities was that I wasn't a therapist, I was just a relationship coach, but I realized that there's also bad therapists out there. And then I've had clients that said that was so much better than a therapist that they're currently seeing, or the therapist that they've had, that they've had. So it was very gratifying.
Dr. Anil Shah:
Awesome. Thanks Julian.
